Lennon's 'imagine'

[CRAZY-HORSE]

ok,firstly, i posted this thread here in 'general' because i dont think it fits into the 'rock' section with it being more of a ballad than rock, even though Lennon is a rock singer.

is there anyone out there who feels this song is overrated as a song, i mean, i cant remember hearing it much until that fateful december day in 1980. it just appears to me that had Lennon been alive today that it would not get the recognition it currently gets as a 'classic' song ie: had it been Mccartney who was murdered then, then 'band on the run' or 'mull of kintyre' would have much more status than they have got now from the general public. Everytime i read a 'best of all time' list 'imagine' is in the top10, more often than not its in the top3.:confused:

its a nothing song, fair enough the lyrics are well written but i much prefer 'give peace a chance' and 'happy xmas(war is over)' as songs of peace and love.:nod:

i also find it extremely hypocritical of Lennon to write such songs of forgiveness,hope and love when he had all the money in the world, didnt give a toss about julian, bashed cynthia(apparently), went on drug/booze benders, was violent and aggressive by nature, yet was telling everyone who'd listen to live a forgiving, loving life. it seems to be a case of 'do as i say, not as i do'.:hand:


this thread is not an attack on John Lennon as i think he had one of the finest rock 'n' roll voices ever and for the most part a great songwriter, what he and Mccartney did in the Beatles from 1965 onwards is timeless and without peers.

im just thankful for the 'next' button on the disc player because i use it everytime i hear the damn song. i personally think as a song it is very weak for someone of John Ono Lennon's stature, in fact it is the weakest track on the 'imagine' album:nod:

your views welcomed :ranger:

[gryphon]

I can make one comment as to why you may not have heard it so much before his death.................Strangely enough Imagine ( The Track or single) did not have a full release in many territories...................It was first available on the Album of course..................but speaking for the UK , it was not released as a domestic single........................IT was only available in 1971 as a US import and as such gained limited airplay. Lennon was totally unaware of this and did speak out in interviews around 1973 about his disappointment about it's UK chart performance...........................He was then informed that it had never been released in the UK .....................His reaction was disbelief!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IN 1974 it was finally made available as a single and made some dent on the charts ...................It's "B" side being the controversial " Working Class Hero ".........................

I'm not sure what the position was in other parts of the world but I do know that most of Europe only had the single as a US import too for along while.................Not sure about Australia and Canada etc

The other point is that this single is not really a Lennon composition...........well it is but its really Yoko Lennon lyrics and John Lennon music..............as much of the lyric comes from Yoko's book grapefruit.

AS to its sataure in popular music.........well it did seem to carry with it something of the post hippie dream of an end to the Vietnam War and it was through Lennon's effort that The US started to withdraw from the idea of fighting that war.:happy::juggle:

[CRAZY-HORSE]

imagine was released as a single in australia in 1971, from research it reached the coverted No.1 position on the singles charts.
yes, Lennons effort and name may have had some impact on the US withdrawl from Vietnam by unifying public opinion, and anyone who promotes peace over war deserves all the accolations for that, no arguements there Gryphon.

[Tiggi]

As a song I think it's good, although nowhere near worth its' stature.

Your point about JL's hypocrisy is one that troubles me more than a bit. I suppose you don't need to be a paragon of virtue to be an idealist ?!

Premature death is always a useful marketing tool...

[Music Head]

Your point about JL's hypocrisy is one that troubles me more than a bit. I suppose you don't need to be a paragon of virtue to be an idealist ?!

Very nice observance my man.
If living a perfect life was a requirement to be a musician, we would be without a lot of good music.
As for CRAZY's do as I say point, I think we're all guilty of that.
It's called learning from your mistakes in life and maybe some never learn. That doesn't mean you shouldn't acknowledge them and at least have the wisdom to say they were wrong choices.

[CRAZY-HORSE]

ok, point taken

[Jerome]

I don't have a preference between McCartney and Lennon, but George Martin (Beatles producer) commented in a book on recording techniques that I read many moons ago that Paul was light years ahead of John when it came to writing new material. He said John rarely came up with the goods and most of the time Paul was the creative one. This comment will probably start WW3 but unfortunately it's true.

[Jerome]

Actually thinking back about the book mentioned previously, George Martin himself was pretty creative. He came up with some pretty unique ideas for recording at the time.

[Jerome]

But I digress- back to 'Imagine' - at the time John was singing about 'imagine no possessions', he sure was collecting them pretty quickly. Maybe he was finding the pressures of fame too much to deal with. For all it's white imagery style movie clips, I find it a pretty bleak album.

[CRAZY-HORSE]

i think WW4 maybe, i started WW3 over my 'stones most overrated band ever thread' some time ago.

i agree with you Jerome, paul was the more creative of the two, but the combination of John/Paul were a force to be reckoned with, i think they inspired eachother equally.
the so-called best album ever 'sgt.peppers' was Pauls conceptual idea, allbeit a response to 'pet sounds', also at that time the heaviest rock song was 'helter skelter', another paul song, mixing classical with pop was something paul did before lennon, ie: yesterday, eleonor rigby. but it worked the other way also, take 'a day in the life' for example, john didnt have a middle section for the song, paul had a single verse and nothing else so they combined the two bits to create that track.
generally speaking though, its so hard to compare the two of them or say one was better than the other as they were both awesome writers, and prolific too, when you think that george was also a good writer but couldnt get a look in most of the time just shows how good the lennon/mccartney combination was, i dont think we'll ever see anyone again who is so prolific with quality/talent. and mccartney is still writing good songs nowadays, many would argue that he's only still releasing records because he owns his own company(mpl) etc.... and what he does now isnt as good as his past achievements, but by most other artists standards, he is still good enuf to hold his own. but then again, i dont think any other artist could say they had a back catalogue as impressive as 'the beatles'.